-----------------------------
N&V-L Digest 528 - 1 Oct 1999
-----------------------------
..................
Thought of the Day
.............................................................
What does education often do ? It makes a straight-cut ditch
of a free, meandering brook.
--HENRY DAVID THOREAU
.............................................................
There are 5 messages in this digest
1. Change of address for N&V-L
2. Re: Translation enquiry
3. New translation enquiry
4. Invasion of privacy ?
5. August N&V-L Digest poste
**
------------------------------
1. Change of address for N&V-L
------------------------------
Please note that as from 10.00 am today, 1 October, the
email
number for all correspondence with N&V-L is
.
For the immediate time being the only other way of communicating
with 'ELT News & Views' will be by mail or fax:
Mail: 51, Old Street
Upton-upon-Severn,
WR8 0HN,
Worcestershire
United Kingdom
(Mail sent to this address will not be opened until
November).
Fax: (001) 603 719-5738 (note this is a US number)
These are now the only ways to contact both 'ELT News &
Views'
and the N&V-L lists (and Martin Eayrs). Please note our Buenos
Aires offices will no longer be attending people in person or
by phone (although we shall be open on Saturday 9 October from
11.00 - 16.00 for our sale of new and second hand ELT materials
and other English language publications).
The home page of our website has also changed and can now
be
accessed at:
http://www.eltnewsandviews.com
Please change your bookmarks and address books to reflect
these
changes.
Posted by: List Editor
mailto:me@eltnewsandviews.com
**
--------------------------
2. Re: Translation enquiry
--------------------------
PAT = Profit After Taxes = beneficio despues de impuestos
(for your information, PBT = Profit Before Taxes)
I find R. Gil Esteban's English Spanish Banking Dictionary
very helpful.
Posted by: Joss Heywood
Cordoba - Argentina
mailto:jheywood@cordoba.com.ar
**
-------------------------
3.New translation enquiry
-------------------------
Firstly, in response to Carolina Matute's PAT query, may
she
didn't specify the source language of the accronym, but if
it was English, might I suggest Profit After Tax??
And now to my own query... are there any etymologists out
there
who could enlighten me as to the linguistic origins of the use
of the possessive apostrophe s in English... this is just the
kind of background information which I love to pass onto my
students and which I think has a real value in helping them
remember to use it correctly... the more mental processing one
does with regard to a specific linguistic item, the more likely
one is to remember it.
Posted by: Graeme Clive Hodgson
SKY CURSOS E TRADUCOES SC LTDA
Fortaleza, Brazil.
mailto:sky@fortalnet.com.br
**
------------------------
4. Invasion of privacy ?
------------------------
Dear colleagues,
I can't agree more with Gabriela Fernández Testa,
as
I happened to have her same feeling when receiving an
invitation to join a new e-list.
Besides being unethical and unprofessional, the sender
of the message has forgotten a golden rule among cyber-f
riends, and that is "netiquette". I also felt that
my
privacy had been invaded, as the source where she had
taken my e-mail address was not mentioned.
As I told her in my reply, the lists I'm already in satisfy
my expectations, I don't need new ones especially when they
have not appeared. It's unusual to receive invitations to
something still non-existent. Perhaps it has been just an
expression of what she wanted to do, but she failed in
choosing the way and the means.
We have to support what is transparent and set personal
and
professional parameters, and openly raise our voices when
something appears to "try" to blur them.
We have to establish boundaries for unprofessional behaviour.
This is one way to do so. Let's keep trying all together!
Posted by: María Laura Rossi
mailto:mlrossi@satlink.com
**
-----------------------------
5. August N&V-L Digest posted
-----------------------------
I have now posted the September 99 digests to the web site
at
http://www.eltnewsandviews.com/listpage/digests.html
They can be freely be consulted there at any time.
Posted by: List Editor
mailto:me@eltnewsandviews.com.ar
**
end
-----------------------------
N&V-L Digest 529 - 6 Oct 1999
-----------------------------
..................
Thought of the Day
.....................................................
Alone we can do so
little, together we can do so much
--Hellen Keller
.....................................................
There are 3 messages in this digest
O. Housekeeping
1. Definitely invasion
2. APIBA'S Annual Seminar
**
---------------
O. Housekeeping
---------------
Well, the combination of changing both server and domain
proved more difficult that I had imagined and I have only
today got the email system up an running again.
In fact we suffer doubly because I have internet access
through one server (for my cable modem) but for technical
reasons (Mac server) keep my accounts on another. So if
either goes on the blink I suffer.
Anyway, it seems stable again now and apologies for the
delay in service.
Posted by: List Editor
mailto:me@eltnewsandviews.com.ar
----------------------
1. Definitely invasion
----------------------
When I received the list editor's mail about an invitation
''in
Spanish to join a new list for teachers of English'' (?) I
said
''lucky me! I wasn't chosen'' Two days later this message
appeared in
my Inbox and I said ''woe is me!'' and after that
''Again?''
Why again you may wonder. I'm simply sick and tired of
these
''people'' who manage to get our e-mail addresses as well as
other
Personal (and *private*) details so as to spam on us. And
yes.... I'm
really angry.
I can let go messages such as chain letters as long as they
are
correctly edited (by this I mean I hate when I read
''original
message'' followed by 100s of addresses 90 times until I read:
''help
little jeannie in Ottawa''). But what I can't accept is this
kind of
thing. Spamming to join lists I have no intention to join (If
I
would
like to do so I just go to makelist.com, egroups.com or any
other to
look for them) and spamming with information on training
courses
abroad which , 1st I can't afford, and 2nd and most important:
I
haven't asked for!!!!! (not to mention spamming made in HTML
mode
which is very nice with colours, big letters but they are
really
heavy)
One of the outstading features of the internet is that
I AM THE
ONE
who looks for the info I want/need. I surf, I choose, I buy, I
give
my
email address to WHOM I choose. and posting in this list does
not let
others advertise their ''products or services'' (i really don't
know
what to call them). Private mails are very much welcomed in my
inbox
if they deal with what I say publicly. I like this
feedback.
To say that these 'people' lack ethics is no news. But,
according to
research I've been doing about spamming it is illegal and is
going to
be penalised soon in our country (Argentina) as it is done in
the US.
And I hope this happens soon.
Best wishes
Posted by: Maria Elisa Suarez
Buenos Aires - Argentina
Mailto:mariaelisa@arnet.com.ar
**
-------------------------
2. APIBA'S Annual Seminar
-------------------------
APIBA'S Annual Seminar, "Further
Studies for Graduate
Teachers" will be held at the
Instituto Superior del
Profesorado "Joaquín V.
González" Rivadavia 3577 on
Saturday 30th October from 9 a.m. to 4.30
p.m.
On this occasion, the Association will
provide a forum
for the presentation of a number of
options for teachers
with degrees from Teacher Training
Colleges. These options
include Diplomas, Licenciaturas, and
Master's courses
offered both in face-to-face and distance
modes, by local
and overseas universities. Representatives
of the
different institutions involved will make
presentations
and panel discussions will also be
organised to provide
participants with an opportunity to ask
questions.
The Seminar will be free of charge for
APIBA Members and
students (proof of status required), $25
for non-members.
Voluntary contributions will be kindly
accepted and raffles
will be conducted.
Please enrol in advance by e-mail or phone
(during office
hours).
Contact apiba99@yahoo.com or 4-813-6884 on Tuesdays from
11 to
15.00
Posted by: Stella Schulte
mailto:stellaschulte@ciudad.com.ar
**
end
-----------------------------
N&V-L Digest 530 - 8 Oct 1999
-----------------------------
..................
Thought of the Day
..........................................
The hardest thing to open is a closed mind.
--anon
..........................................
There are 3 messages in this digest
1. Support of the list - donations received
2. Phonetic and Phonology bibliography needed
3. Spam
**
-------------------------------------------
1. Support of the list - donations received
-------------------------------------------
I thought list members might be interested in seeing the
response to the recent thread on donations to support the
administration of N&V-L.
The Argentina list is currently fluctuating at around 880
members. I am subbing/unsubbing four or five a day but it
seems to have stabilised at this figure for the time being.
To date 14 members have made donations of support, varying
in amount from $10 to $47. Of these 14 people, 8 are from
the UK, 2 from Brazil and 4 from Argentina.
As regards the national composition of the list, less than
2% of list members are from the UK, about the same from
Brazil (which now has its own list) and approximately 95%
from Argentina. These figures surely provide food for
thought on the perception of the value given to a service
like N&V-L within the different cultures.
Members may also like to know that as far as I have been
able to ascertain N&V-L is the only list of its kind in the
world in that it is owned by no association, receives no
subsidies of any kind (until these kind donations) and owes
no obligations or dues to no one.
I would like to express publicly my thanks to those who
have
offered their support in this way, while respecting their
right to anonymity. Each has been thanked personally.
Posted by: List Editor
mailto:me@eltnewsandviews.com.ar
**
---------------------------------------------
2. Phonetic and Phonology bibliography needed
---------------------------------------------
I would like to ask list members for help with comparative
analysis of both Spanish (if possible Argentine) and English
phonetic and phonology systems. I know excellent done is being
done at public universities in the country.
Could you please contact me about it? I am willing to pay
for
postage of material.
Thaks a lot
Posted by: Mercedes Rossetti
Bar Ilan University, Buenos Aires
mailto:mrossetti@impsat1.com.ar
**
-------
3. Spam
-------
Why do some people get so worked up by unsolicited emails?
Do these people feel an equal sense of outrage when their
local pizzeria shoves a leaflet under their door or when
their bank writes to them offering a new service? I think
not. As long as the spam isnít actually filling up their
mailbox and stopping other messages from getting through,
I think itís no more than a very minor annoyance. Spam
is an inevitable consequence (and a pretty innocuous one)
of living in a society where people have to sell things to
make a living. Furthermore, itís a lot easier to delete
an
email than it is to dispose of other unsolicited communications.
Posted by: Eamonn Mc Donagh
Buenos Aires
mailto:kanmac@arnet.com.ar
**
end
------------------------------
N&V-L Digest 531 - 11 Oct 1999
------------------------------
..................
Thought of the Day
...........................................
The great difficulty in education is to get
experience out of ideas.
--George Santayana
...........................................
There are 5 messages in this digest
1. Spams - harmless or harmful ?
2. Non-ethical attitudes
3. Answer to Eamonn Mc Donagh
4. Text books and the new syllabuses
5. Marketing and Technology Workshop
**
--------------------------------
1. Spams - harmless or harmful ?
--------------------------------
Eamonn Mc Donagh asks "Why do some people get so worked
up
by unsolicited emails?" and continues: " As long as
the spam
isn't actually filling up their mailbox and stopping other
messages from getting through, I think it's no more than a
very minor annoyance."
Spamming doesn't block your personal mailbox (unless you
receive a lot of spams) but it blocks the post office (the
ISP server) preventing them from delivering other messages
to your mailbox.
When you receive a spam, every other person on your list
also receives it. I belong to lists that have 8,000 members
or more. Some lists can top 50,000 subscribers.
ISPs have crashed as a result of spams, leaving subscribers
unable to send or receive messages. And when service is
resumed - afetr days or weeks - it can be patchy with many
messages lost.
Additionally some e-lists automatically unsubscribe you
if
their messages "bounce" (are returned as undelivered.)
It may
be some time before you realise that you have not been receiving
messages from List X and go to the trouble of re-subscribing -
and it's a lot more trouble finding out if you misssed anything
in the meantime.
Some ISP's ban their subscribers from sending Spams.
Posted by: Frank Nowikowski
Buenos Aires, Argentina
mailto:fnowikow@cvtci.com.ar
**
-----------------------
2 Non-ethical attitudes
-----------------------
In connection with Spam, Eannon comments that it is
similar to receiving a leaflet from your local "pizzeria'.
I disagree. When these leaflets are shoved into my mailbox,
I have NO expense. When the mail arrives through email, it
is I who is paying for their publicity. Peanuts, I agree,
but they are MY peanuts.
Besides, what I personally complained about was not the
fact that I received non-required publicity. But that
this particular one had in itself an unethical and tricky
behaviour.
Not only was it non-required, it was advertising an English
e-list in Spanish and it was using references- very valuable,
such as UBA- but yet non realistic. Since UBA has no English
teacher training programmes. I think the point here is not
getting through.
What I am complaining about is non-ethical attitudes. I
am
no publicist and though I admit I hate receiving non-required
material I know some people make a living of this . But I
insist, non ethical attitudes are what trigger off my anger.
Posted by: Gabriela Fernandez Testa.
mailto:avefenix@arnet.com.ar
**
-----------------------------
3. Answer to Eamonn Mc Donagh
-----------------------------
I simply do not wnat my account to be filled up with things
I have not asked for.
He wrote
>
''when their local pizzeria shoves a leaflet under their door
or when their bank writes to them offering a new service?''
>
I have to say that one thing is to throw paper which I
didn't
ask for and that I didn't pay and something completely different
is to waste time and money on a mail that again, I have no
interest whatsoever to read or to get that service they may be
promoting in an illegal way.
As I said before I'm against illegal spamming, that is,
people like Mrs So & So (sorry I dont remember her name) who
subscribed to the list to ''offer us to join her list''in an
unethical way.
You may call me stingy, well .... Do it. I dont mind. I'm
young
& I hate wasting the little money I earn every month.
Hope this does not bring any more problems to this peaceful list.
Posted by: Maria Elisa Suarez
Bs. As. Argentina
mailto:mariaelisa@arnet.com.ar
[ The spam thread is of marginal interest to teachers
of
English and is hereby discontinued - List Editor ]
**
------------------------------------
4. Text books and the new syllabuses
------------------------------------
Lots of new material has been rushed out by ELT
publishers to meet the requirements of the new
syllabuses for EGB and Polimodal. But does it
suit the teacher's needs ?
What do you think about recent ELT material ? What
seems good for your reality ? What has worked or
failed for you?
Let's share some opinions on this - before we commit
ourselves to buying our books for the new year, let's
see if they're going to be/do what we want !
Posted by: List Editor
mailto:me@eltnewsandviews.com.ar
**
------------------------------------
5. Marketing and Technology Workshop
------------------------------------
BEWEnglish/HYPERMEDIA 2000 is repeating the following workshop:
Title: Successful Marketing Strategies for Institutes
and Teachers
of English
Lecturers: Betty Wolff/Marcelo Rodeiro/Gustavo Macagno
Date: October 16th and October 30th (Saturday) 2 pm to 7:30 pm
Place: BEWEnglish/HYPERMEDIA 2000
Juncal 2530, 01425 Ciudad de Buenos Aires
Fee: $120
Vacancies: limited
Contact: betty@giga.com.ar. Tel: 4825-0303. Fax: 4821-3572
Posted by: Betty Wolff
Director of Studies BEW English
mailto:betty@giga.com.ar
**
end
------------------------------
N&V-L Digest 532 - 13 Oct 1999
------------------------------
__ ___ __ __
__
/ \ / /| _ | | / // / /|
/ \ / / / / \ __ | | / // / / /
/ /\ \ / / / / / \/ / | | / // ___ / / /
/ / /\ \/ / / / / \/ / | |/ // |___| / / /
/ / / \\ / / | | / /\ | // / / /_____
/__/ / \\__/ / \ \/ /\ \ |__ // / /_______/|
|__|/ |__|/ \__/ \_\ |__|/ |___________|/
..................
Thought of the Day
.............................................
Experience is the worst teacher; it gives the
test before the lesson.
--Vernon Law
.............................................
There are 4 messages in this digest
1. Demise of USIA/USIS
2. Last SEAL presentation of 1999
3. Wanted: info on international schools
4. Reading for pleasure
______________________________________________________________
**
----------------------
1. Demise of USIA/USIS
----------------------
Apparently since the beginning of October the United
States Information Agency (USIA) and United States
Information Services (USIS) no longer exist as
independent agencies but have been absorbed into
the US Department of State.
Perhaps some list member can confirm this and clarify
the change and who should be contacted now for business
previously handled by USIA/USIS ?
Posted by: List Editor
mailto:me@eltnewsandviews.com.ar
**
---------------------------------
2. Last SEAL presentation of 1999
---------------------------------
Theme: Self-Esteem for the Little Ones
Presenter: Verónica de Andrés
Venue: Colegio Amapola: Nicaragua 4739
Date: October 16th (9.30-1pm)
Fee: SEAL Members $20
Non Members $25
No registration will be made on the same day of the workshops.
Registration:
a ) Personally at Colegio Amapola.
b ) By phone/fax - deposit in BankBoston (any branch) Cuenta
Corriente :01-2200-00 Titular : "Verónica de Andrés"
and fax Registration Form together and stamped deposit
to (011) 4752-4701 / 4752-3331
Posted by:Terry Cullen
mailto:tcullen@cvtci.com.ar
**
----------------------------------------
3. Wanted: info on international schools
----------------------------------------
One of my closest friends, who happens to be an English
teacher,
is coming back from the US to work in Argentina after six years
and she would like to have e-mails or regular addresses of
international schools downtown or in the northen suburbs. I hope
I can get them for her through this list.
Thank you in advance.
Posted by: María Inés Andura
mailto:speaknclub@infovia.com.ar
**
-----------------------
4. Reading for pleasure
-----------------------
Reading for pleasure. Short stories: analysis, vocabulary,
comments. Saturday 16 October from 4:30 to 6:00 pm
For further information call 4964-2669.
Posted by: Estela D. Bohbouth
Traductora Pública - Idioma Inglés
mailto:estela@ba.net
**
end
------------------------------
N&V-L Digest 533 - 21 Oct 1999
------------------------------
There are 6 messages in this digest
1. Food for thought on donations to the list
2. Workshop at TEL Center
3. Reading for pleasure session postponed
4. Methodology workshop
5. Workshop on the Teaching of Writing
6. Event: Hats off to Change
...................
Thought for the Day
...................................................
Only a life lived for others is a life worth living
--Albert Einstein
...................................................
**
--------------------------------------------
1. Food for thought on donations to the list
--------------------------------------------
From the analysis, the majority on the Argentina list
are Argentine and only a few have donated money in
contrast to a few list members in Britain in comparison
and many more have contributed to the list.
Shouldn´t we bear in mind that the local economic
situation doesn´t allow for any extra spendings and it
might not be a cultural difference at all?
On the other hand, Argentines are willing and interested
as well as informed about their reality hence their
interest in N&V list.
Posted by: Mary Anne Warburton
mailto:mawarburton@machelt.com.ar
**
-------------------------
2. Workshop at TEL Center
-------------------------
The English Language Center is pleased to announce the
following workshop to be held on its premises:
Title: Games from A to Z
Lecturer: Patricia Gomez
Date: Sat., October 23, 1999
Time: 2.30-6.00pm
Venue: T.E.L. Center, Thames 511,
1414 Buenos Aires City
For further details please contact us by phone/fax:
(11) 4856-0020 (3.30-8.30pm),
or e-mail: telcenter@infovia.com.ar
Posted by: Viviana Myslicki
mailto:hmlopez@infovia.com.ar
**
-----------------------------------------
3. Reading for pleasure session postponed
-----------------------------------------
Reading sessions have been postponed. They will start
on October 23rd.
Meeting will be held on Saturday from 4:30 to 6:00 pm .
For further information call : 4964-2669,
or e-mail to: estela@ba.net.
Posted by: Estela D. Bohbouth
Traductora Pública - Idioma Inglés
mailto:estela@ba.net
**
-----------------------
4. Methodology workshop
-----------------------
I´d like to inform all list members out there about
a
Methodology workshop to be held at INTERACTION LANGUAGE
STUDIO:
What: THE ADULT LEARNERA NEGLECTED SPECIES
Who: Silvana Ioli
Where: INTERACTION LANGUAGE STUDIO Av. L.N.Alem 424 PB
When: Tuesday, Oct 26 10.30-12.30
For further information call us at 4311-7220/4312-1950
or at
interaction@movi.com.ar
Enrolment is in progress up to Oct 22.
Posted by: Virginia López Grisolía
mailto:interaction@movi.com.ar
**
--------------------------------------
5. Workshop on the Teaching of Writing
--------------------------------------
What? Responding to Students' Written Work: Some practical
ideas
Who? Analia Kandel
When? Saturday, 6 November, from 9:30 to 12
Where? Instituto Feedback, Guemes 3915, Buenos Aires
Cost? $ 20
Limited vacancies. Please confirm enrolment in advance.
Certificates of attendance will be issued.
Further details:
By tel / fax: (011) 4831 0532
By e-mail: feedback2@arnet.com.ar
On-line: www.angelfire.com/ar/akandel/
Posted by: Martha Crespo & Cristina Speranza
Instituto Feedback
mailto:feedback2@arnet.com.ar
**
----------------------------
6. Event: Hats off to Change
----------------------------
right,left
CELL- CENTRE FOR EDUCATION AND LIFELONG LEARNING
Announces our end-of-the-year event:
"HATS OFF TO CHANGE "
Lecturers: Susan Hillyard and Claudia Rey
Topics: Self Appraisal, Problem Solving
Thinking and Planning Strategies
Reading as a Tool for Personal
and Professional Improvement.
Event : Presentation with activities.
Target: Teachers, Coordinators, Heads, Managers
and Trainers, Professionals and Executives
and everyone interested in change.
Vacancies: Ltd.
Date: Saturday, October 30
Fee: $ 50 per day.
Venue: I.T.E.S.L. (Institute for the Teaching of English
as a Second Language), Domingo F.D. Sarmiento 1975.
Florida
Contact: Alicia Ghiorzi,
Tel-Fax : 47972775/47962534.
Posted by: Susan Hillyard
mailto:hillyard@ciudad.com.ar
**
end
------------------------------
N&V-L Digest 534 - 22 Oct 1999
------------------------------
There are 4 messages in this digest
0. Housekeeping message
1. Impoverished teachers ?
2. Info required on APIBA event
3. Language enquiry
4. Conference for Translators
**
...................
Thought for the Day
............................................................
Benevolence alone will not make a teacher, nor will learning
alone do it. The gift of teaching is a peculiar talent, and
implies a need and a craving in the teacher himself.
--John Jay
Chapman
............................................................
______________________________________________________________
| ELT News & Views accepts no responsibility for the truth
or |
| accuracy of facts published in this list and the list editor
|
| reserves the right not to be associated with opinions stated.|
-------------------------------------------------------------
**
-----------------------
0. Housekeeping message
-----------------------
List members will probably be aware that the list editor
is
physically relocating from Buenos Aires to the United Kingdom.
Despite what has been asserted several times in private messages
to certain list members this does NOT mean that N&V-L is closing
down. The list editor is committed to this list and has no
intention of abandoning it for anything as mundane as a physical
move.
However, because of having to transfer himself and his
effects
to the United Kingdom it may mean a brief interruption to list
services. The editor will attempt to maintain contact with the
list through the use of third party servers and hopes that this
will work until he has a new system up and running.
In the meantime, if there is a brief period of silence
please
understand that this merely a consequence of his move and that
he will very soon be back on line.
Posted by: List Editor
mailto:me@eltnewsandviews.com
**
--------------------------
1. Impoverished teachers ?
--------------------------
[ A reply to Mary Anne Warburton - List Editor ]
Mary Anne, let me disagree with you on some issues in your
posting. You say "Argentines are willing and interested as
well as informed about their reality hence their interest
in N&V list."If our colleagues are so interested, why
don't
they contribute ? I know donations were voluntary, but I feel
we have to support what is clear, transparent, inclusive,
professional and helps develop, features that this list
does have.
Four out of 880! It's more than food for thought! I wouldn't
like to 'make a tango of it', but... Do we have to be reminded
that most of our voices have been heard and issues of concern
for our profession raised and discussed with an invaluable
openness of mind from the list editor?
Which side are colleagues who complain, do not contribute,
but
do make use of every 'free' service on ? This really makes a
"cultural difference". I do agree on the fact that "the
local
economic situation doesn´t allow for any extra spendings".
Do
people who post events with much higher fees get others enroled
as a result?
Have people realised that If we donate $10 it would be
the
same as spending 0,83 cents a month? Not too much for an extra
spending !
Most of us Argentinians have a mediocre and selfish way
of
thinking/behaving that unfortunately does not give full value
to what is wholly worthy of.
Posted by: Maria Laura Rossi
Olavarria-Argentina
mailto:mlrossi@satlink.com
**
-------------------------------
2. Info required on APIBA event
-------------------------------
I need information on Apiba's oncoming event: the one
related to different offers to get trained as a teacher
either here or through distance learning. Need dates and
info on how to make a presentation.
Thanks.
Posted by: Maria Barberis
mailto:barberis@marin.esc.edu.ar
**
------------------
3. Language enquiry
-------------------
Can somebody help me with the English words for:
"animacion de fiestas infantiles" and "guarderia
nautica"
(the place where you keep your boat when not using it) ?
Thanks.
Posted by: Valeria Bueno
mailto:vbueno@tecoint.com
**
-----------------------------
4. Conference for Translators
-----------------------------
An event 'El Traductor del 2000' is scheduled to take
place on Saturday 13 November in the San Isidro Colegio
de Abogados.
Further information from Tel: 4732-0303 / 4794-1305 or
4735-0772 or by email from .
Posted by: List Editor
mailto:me@eltnewsandviews.com
**
end
------------------------------
N&V-L Digest 535 - 28 Oct 1999
------------------------------
There are 7 messages in this digest
1. 10 pesos quite a percentage
2. Response to Language query
3. Response to Language query
4. Posting from APIBA
5. Reply to Valerie Bueno
6. Seminar in San Juan
7. Response to Maria Laura Rossi
**
...................
Thought for the Day
.....................................................
The secret of education lies in respecting the pupil.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
.....................................................
**
------------------------------
1. 10 pesos quite a percentage
------------------------------
Just a thought ... I am paid 106 pesos for a course I
teach three times a week...donating 10 pesos would be
quite a percentage of my monthly salary...don't you
think so?
Posted by: Daniela Forquera
mailto:danielafo@arnet.com.ar
**
-----------------------------
2. Response to Language query
-----------------------------
Response to Valeria Bueno's Language query.
> "animacion de fiestas infantiles" and
> "guarderia nautica"
You could say "Children's Party Attraction" and"boathouse"
for the covered variety with gates and roof, whilst
"berth" is the name for a rented space at a marina.
Hope this is helpful! All the best from Brazil!!!
Graeme Clive Hodgson
Director - SKY CURSOS E TRADUCOES LTDA, Fortaleza, Brazil
mailto:sky@fortalnet.com.br
**
-----------------------------
3. Response to Language query
-----------------------------
> Valeria Bueno wrote:
>Can somebody help me with the English words for:
>
>"animacion de fiestas infantiles" and "guarderia
nautica"
>(the place where you keep your boat when not using it) ?
>
In the SE of the United Stated you may keep your boat at
the "marina".
Roberto Perez
mailto:rgpg@technologist.com
http://RobertoPerez.tsx.org
**
---------------------
4. Posting from APIBA
---------------------
APIBA Seminar "Further Studies for Graduate Teachers"
will be held on October 30th at Instituto del Profesorado
Joaquín V. Gonzalez from 9 to 4:30 p.m. It is free for
Members and Students (with proof of their status) Non
Members must pay $25. There will be several presentations
during the morning and in the afternoon.
The Association will provide a forum for the presentation
of a number of options for teachers with degrees from
Teacher Training Colleges. These options include Diplomas,
Licenciaturas, and Master's courses offered both in face-
to-face and distance modes, by local and overseas
universities. Representatives of the different institutions
involved will make presentations, and panel discussions
will be organised to provide participants with an opportunity
to ask questions.
If there are any more queries, please contact me.
Posted by: Stella Schulte"
mailto:stellaschulte@ciudad.com.ar
**
-------------------------
5. Reply to Valerie Bueno
-------------------------
The Oxfordshire Yellow Pages has several pages in the
"entertainment" section where people bill themselves
as
"children's entertainment" or "children's entertainer".
And a boat house is the place where people keep their
boats in the winter around here. Or were you thinking
of something else?
Posted by: Catherine Walter
Oxfordshire, England
mailto:cwalter@compuserve.com
**
----------------------
6. Seminar in San Juan
----------------------
A workshop on "Task Based Learning" will be held
in
San Juan on 6 November from 9.30 hs to 12.30. The workshop
will be coordinated by Prof. Marcela Ramos (MA North London
University). Certificates will be issued.
For further information call (0264) 422-4486 or contact
.
Posted by: Fabiola Lara
mailto:fabiola.lara@iname.com
**
--------------------------------
7. Response to Maria Laura Rossi
--------------------------------
I believe Mary Anne Warburton simply reacted to the
blatant stereotypes that the editor's message implied
(there was no need to include nationalities unless
the editor wanted to make a point), which Maria Laura
Rossi explicitly worded in the last paragraph of her
message:
"Most of us Argentinians have a mediocre and selfish
way of thinking/behaving that unfortunately does not
give full value to what is wholly worthy of."
I'm not sure why Rossi interpreted the lack of
financial support in this way, since it was clear
from many of the messages submitted to the list
that people do have justified reasons, be it
economic, ethical, or personal ones, to make a
"donation" or not. Now, the fact that many of
us do not happen to agree with Rossi or the other
three Argentines that donated money to the editor
does not allow Rossi or anyone else to make claims
that do not stand a most basic logical test.
It's most unfortunate to have colleagues who believe
they have the right to throw "most of us" into the
same bag just because we happen to disagree with
their ideas. Stereotyping is an easy way out.
Generalizations of this kind do not foster any
kind of constructive criticism or critical thinking
and perpetuate ideas which lack any logical foundation.
I for one do not believe that an "editor" is
actually
necessary because I do not mind language errors (I
teach native speakers and believe me, I've grown
immune to many grammatical infelicities which I never
held up against their ability to think or reason) and,
needless to say, I do not believe that anyone would
"make a fool of themselves" if they did make a mistake
(this was one of the claims presented by the editor in
support of his function).
The bottom line, we all have our reasons to "donate"
money to the list editor or not. It's obvious that we
do value the list because, otherwise, we would have long
unsubscribed. What makes the list valuable for many of
us is the information which is shared, which can also
be distributed by means of a simple listserv or
communicated with "errors" which true professionals
in the field would not take as an "offense" or use them
as grounds to question anyone's proficiency in their
profession.
Finaly, I would like to clearly state my grounds for
not donating money to the editor. After some consideration,
I decided not to support someone who presides a commercial
institution which seems to intend to make an extra buck
through what I consider questionable means (see quoted
text below). Despite the existance of studies in Linguistics
which confirm that native language ability can be achieved
by non-native speakers, the idea of "non-nativeness"
is
used in the ELT News page to attract customers. The
quality of a translation is by no means solely related
to whether the translator is a native speaker of the
target language or not. Quite the contrary, I've read
translations into Castilian Spanish in the US which are
absolute garbage to say the least; and I know they were
made by native speakers who, obviously, were educated and
had good intentions but were not translation professionals.
Since I had no guarantee that my money was going to be used
exclusively to improve NV-L services rather than Victoria
Language Services, whose business practices I do not support,
I decided not to make a donation.
====
Editing and Text correction
Texts which have been prepared in English by non-native
speakers often contain grammatical and orthographical errors
as well as those of style and register. We can prepare a
client's texts for publication, ironing out the inconsistencies
and irregularities. Click here to mail us for more information.
source: http://www.eltnewsandviews.com.ar/services/services.html
====
Posted by: Julio Rodriguez
Department of English
Iowa State University
mailto:juliocr@hotmail.com
[ My fear was not that anyone would make a fool of
themself through inappropriate language. What I
said was that certain list members were _afraid of_
making fools of themselves - a very different matter,
and especially critical in a list for teachers of
English. Because of this I wanted to give support to
those who would otherwise feel insecure. I stand
by this offer although messages are 'edited' lightly.
List Editor. ]
**
end
------------------------------
NV-L Digest 536 - 29 Oct 1999
------------------------------
There are 3 messages in this digest
1. In reply to Maria Laura Rossi
2. Reply to Julio Rodriguez
3. Language query
**
...................
Thought for the Day
.....................................................
Education is what survives when what has been learned
has been forgotten.
-- B.F. Skinner
.....................................................
**
--------------------------------
1. In reply to Maria Laura Rossi
--------------------------------
I find it very interesting to see how people
differ in their opinion on practically everything
that can be discussed.
I don´t think that everybody is as you describe
and certainly hope that as teachers we can help
build a more positive attitude in those who are
like that.
Concerning the invitation to events, the ones I
have sent to this list are free of charge for
teachers so I couldn´t really answer your question
on the benefits you imply. For me it is just a
reminder following the mailing, posters and
newspaper ads that we use to publicize our events.
Mary Anne Warburton
mailto:mawarburton@machelt.com.ar
**
---------------------------
2. Reply to Julio Rodriguez
---------------------------
Sorry Julio if you felt so touched by what I wrote.
I know I might have reacted in a rather impulsive way,
though my intention was neither to throw everybody "in
the same bag" (by saying "us" I included myself
in
some respects) nor to attack anybody for disagreeing
or not donating.
Let me just tell you that your posting is a bit more
agressive than mine reading it from a personal angle.
And it is this list which allows our disagreement.
People might have noticed that there is a changing tendency
towards free lists worldwide. Most of what used to be Free
in Internet has now become paid. One is given just a sip,
but the whole drink has to be paid for. Neither reasons
have to be justified, nor opinions expressed.
Let me change Emerson's words by saying that the secret
of education lies in respecting one another. This has
always been a leading principle in my life, although
sometimes I'm not clear enough to express myself. And
that's all I want to say.
Posted by: María Laura Rossi
Olavarría- Argentina
mailto:mlrossi@satlink.com
**
-----------------
3. Language query
-----------------
Can anybody help me out here. I'm working on
a script and got stuck with a few language
problems. What's the English for: "el televisor
flamea". I would also appreciate your help with
the name for the gadget used many years ago in
Argentina to light gas rings, a lighter we
called by its trademark name: "Magiclick".
Thanks a million for your help.
Posted by: Fabian Horacio Cruz
mailto:fcruz@interserver.com.ar
**
end
------------------------------
NV-L Digest 537 - 31 Oct 1999
------------------------------
There are 4 messages in this digest
1. Invitation to workshop
2. Response to Language query
3. Pen Pal project
4. Cats, bags, babies and bathwater
**
...................
Thought for the Day
.............................................
There's a crack in everything. That's how the
light gets in.
-- Leonard Cohen
.............................................
**
--------------------------------
1. Invitation to workshop
--------------------------------
Workshop in EFL Literature: How to motivate students
to read and use tales and poems to enhance their language
awareness
What: III Feria Nacional y Internacional
de libro del autor novel - 1999
Where: Escuela D.F.Sarmiento
Callao 450 - CF.
When: November 13th 14th - 6 p.m.
Who: Cecilia Adriana Ramirez
Patricia Ariadna Arias
Cost: Free of charge.
Info: 15 40913773 OR 0220 4859714
e-mail
Posted by: Cecilia Ramirez de Ricci
mailto:cr@infovia.com.ar
**
------------------------------
2. Response to Language query
------------------------------
"el televisor flamea" could be "the television
screen comes on" but one would need to see the
context to be able to give a perfect translation.
"Magiclick" could be "spark lighter". But
I'm
sure someone will be able to give you a more
technical name.
Hope these will do for the meantime !
Kind regards,
Graeme Clive Hodgson
SKY CURSOS E TRADUCOES SC LTDA.
mailto:sky@fortalnet.com.br
**
------------------
3. Pen Pal project
------------------
I have received a letter from 'World Pen Pals'
asking me to put them in touch with 'reliable
students of good character who would enjoy
corresponding with a friend in America (sic)'.
The letterhead is from New York so for 'America'
we should presumably understand the USA.
Anyway I thought I would pass it on to list
members. If interested, please contact:
Robert Carroll
Director World Pen Pals
P.O. Box 337
Saugerties
NY 12477
USA
Sorry, no email was given.
Posted by: List Editor
mailto:me@eltnewsandviews.com
**
-----------------------------------
4. Cats, bags, babies and bathwater
-----------------------------------
A few weeks ago I attended a seminar sponsored
by XYZ Educational Services. Mr So and So, head
of XYZ Educational Services, complained bitterly
on the number of on-site registrations to the
seminar. He also mentioned a previous (free)
event by Prof. Z, in which 40% of the people who
had enroled failed to turn up. Mr So and So
highlighted the importance (for his own
administrative and organisational purposes, I
gather) of attending free seminars you enrol
for and registering in advance for paid ones.
He brought the notion home by congratulating
teachers who had attended the previous seminar,
and enroled in advance for this one, because "if
you do that, you are already good teachers" (I
won't give names, if you were there you know who
said it and if not it doesn't matter anyway, but
the transcript is verbatim).
Not so long ago, teachers who disagree with the
idea that the list editor should be financially
supported by listers were pointed at as a sign of
the mediocrity and selfisness of Argentines in
general and Argentine ELT professionals in
particular. The writer of this posting was
supporting the list editor's view that the
number of financial contributors showed "the
perception of the value given to a service like
NV-L within the different cultures". The same
poster later justified her claims by saying that
most services on the Internet are shifting from
free to paid, and that since this is the way of
the world we have to (must? should?) dance to
that music.
Not to make too fine a point of it, and to avoid
throwing fuel on a fire that needs no kindling,
I would like to address the issue of which standards
we use to measure professionalism and appreciation.
There are many interests in ELT, many of which belong
to a particularly insensitive and uncooperative
commercial sector which fails to support the activity
and "pay back" for the significant profits made from
sales of their merchandise to our students. This
commercial sector does and will measure interest
in financial terms, and pigeonhole teachers
according to their organisational convenience and
wellbeing.
In medicine, laboratories refuse to provide doctors
with samples and "courtesies" (atendance to seminars
and various freebies) if they find that they do not
prescribe enough of their products (I have been told
this by several people in the medical profession).
Are these "mediocre, selfish" doctors? Do they not
appreciate the efforts made by the laboratories?
Are they "bad doctors"? ELT is both a profession
and a business, and we, as professionals, have
to be wide awake and well aware of who is saying
what and on which bases, and also of the terms
we ourselves use. If not, we will be adopting
the language of the commercial side and judge
situations in those terms. I remember a poster
who a few months ago built an analogy between
the customer-company and the teacher-student
relationship. Let us NOT allow that to happen.
Posted by: Pablo Toledo
mailto:toledo@movi.com.ar
**
end