`N&V-L Digests 516 - 527 September 1999`

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------------------------------ N&V-L Digest 518 - 2 Sep 1999 ------------------------------ ................................................... You don't go down the street, after all, picking up every piece of paper blowing in the breeze. If you find that a search engine gives you garbage, don't use it..... Pretty soon you'll have some bookmarks of places you trust, and your reading quality will increase. You may find that the better sources have involved considerable human effort, and so there will be either advertising to read, a subscription to pay, or a volunteer to thank. Or did you want quality for nothing ? --Tim Berners-Lee ................................................... [ Contributed by a list member ] ...................................................

There are 6 messages in this digest

1. Language query 2. Language query (2) 3. Language query (3) 4. Workshop on Theatre games in the class 5. Writing contest 6. August N&V-L Digest posted

** ______________________________________________________________ | ELT News & Views accepts no responsibility for the truth or | | accuracy of facts published in this list and the list editor | | reserves the right not to be associated with opinions stated.| -------------------------------------------------------------

**

----------------- 1. Language query -----------------

Dear Colleagues,

I would be grateful if you could tell me if the "English" words for the following are correct:

incomprable (unpurchasable?)

imborrable (undeletable?)

inmutable (immutable?)

If you can suggest a better one please let me know I came across these words in a translation I'm working on

Posted by: Cecilia R. Ricci mailto:cr@infovia.com.ar

** -------------------- 2. Language query (2) ---------------------

Can anyone tell me how to say "lanzaminas"? I work at a technical secondary school, and every time I have to name a "lanzaminas" I'm really at a loss!

Thanks a lot!

Posted by: Marta Malaccorto mailto:martam@3net.com.ar

** -------------------- 3. Language query (3) ---------------------

I think that having your hair in a bob is having it cut "a la taza" or "al paje".

The women's moustache I would call a down.

posted by: Silvina Hunter mailto:pondal@cotelnet.com.ar

** ----------------------------------------- 4. Workshop on Theatre games in the class -----------------------------------------

The Instituto Nacional Superior del Profesorado Técnico announces the following workshop:

4th September 14.30 to 17.30

"Bring theatre games into your class"

by Patricia Gomez

Registration at INSPT: Triunvirato 3174 4552-6027/4176

Fee. $10

Posted by: Silvia Iummato mailto:silium@sinectis.com.ar

** ------------------ 5. Writing contest ------------------

We would like to invite teachers to take part in our first writing contest. It is for students from 7/8 years old to any age group. It is poetry and narrative. Poems have no specific number of words compulsory, whereas narrative depends on the students´ ages . In case any teacher is interested, email us to:<owschool@infovia.com.ar>.

The deadline is October 1st, 1999.

We will be willing to send you any information you might need.

Posted by: Victoria Fonseca. Head of " Oscar Wilde School". mailto:owschool@infovia.com.ar

** ----------------------------- 6. August N&V-L Digest posted -----------------------------

I have now posted the August 99 digests to the web site at http://www.eltnewsandviews.com.ar/listpage/digests.html

They can be consulted there at any time at no charge.

Posted by: List Editor mailto:me@eltnewsandviews.com.ar

**

end

----------------------------- N&V-L Digest 511 - 5 Sep 1999 -----------------------------

............................................ In the beginning there was the word. But by the time the second was added to it, there was trouble. For with it came syntax... --John Simon ........................................... .

There are 11 messages in this digest

1. Re: Paying for the list 2. APIBA Annual Seminar 3. Language query - reply 4. Workshop on the Teaching of Writing 5. A language query 6. Request from San Francisco 7. BrazTESOL 2000 8. Riddles wanted 9. Language through the Media 10. Coordinating successfully 11. Exaggerating qualifications

______________________________________________________________ | ELT News & Views accepts no responsibility for the truth or | | accuracy of facts published in this list and the list editor | | reserves the right not to be associated with opinions stated.| -------------------------------------------------------------

**

-------------------------- 1. Re: Paying for the list --------------------------

I already posted something on the issue, but the latest news make me want to add yet another pair of cents, so here I go.

I would not pay for an email list to begin with. I do not think people can or should be charged for exchanging ideas.

Having said that, I would pay for a list which were the singlehanded effort of a person with no other concern than providing people with the space to exchange ideas (a condition N&V-L meets) with no other tied benefit or use of the list (not the case of N&V-L). Every message I get from the list has a reminder that it is linked to ELT N&V, and I have occasionally received the odd email promoting the magazine, its extra features (disks, back issues, activities diskettes) or Martin's extra activities (offering talks and the like).

I have absolutely no objection to that, since I understand that we are all making a living here and many of the members of the list will certainly benefit from that information. I understand we are not saints feeding from air and intellectual discussion. I understand Martin Eayrs is not Mother Teresa with a beard. However, I would not be happy to pay for a list which is already giving its editor an extra benefit - if only that of having a list of addresses to occasionally use for commercial purposes.

I insist, nothing against the list or Martin here. I have always taken the odd commercial email as "the price to pay" for the list, and I certainly do not mind them. ELT N&V is useful and necessary, and so is the mailing list. However, I wouldn't feel good about paying for a list which is (sometimes) used for commercial purposes by its editor.

Pablo Toledo <mailto:toledo@movi.com.ar>mailto:toledo@movi.com.ar

** ----------------------- 2. APIBA Annual Seminar -----------------------

APIBA'S Annual Seminar, "Further Studies for Graduate Teachers" will be held at the Instituto Superior del Profesorado "Joaquín V. González" Rivadavia 3577 on Saturday 30th October from 9 a.m. to 4.30 p.m.

On this occasion, the Association will provide a forum for the presentation of a number of options for teachers with degrees from Teacher Training Colleges. These options include Diplomas, Licenciaturas, and Master's courses offered both in face-to-face and distance modes, by local and overseas universities.

Representatives of the different institutions involved will make presentations and panel discussions will also be organised to provide participants with an opportunity to ask questions.

The Seminar will be free of charge for APIBA Members and students (proof of status required), $25 for non-members. Voluntary contributions will be kindly accepted and raffles will be conducted.

Please enrol in advance by e-mail or phone (during office hours). apiba99@yahoo.com or 4-813-6884 on Tuesdays from 11 to 15.00

Posted by: Stella Schulte mailto:stellaschulte@ciudad.com.ar

** ------------------------- 3. Language query - reply -------------------------

To answer language query number 2, posted by Marta Malaccorto:

'Lanzaminas' is a mechanical pencil

Language query number 1, posted by Cecilia R. Ricci:

all of these words depend on the language context.

'incomprable': is it used to mean that something is too expensive? then it would be unaffordable.

'imborrabl'e: is it something that you cant forget (a memory) ? it would be unforgettable or is it ink or some other substance that does not come out? then it would be indelible

'inmutabl'e: immutable sounds about right.

Posted by: Jorge E. Neiman mailto:option@ciudad.com.ar

** -------------------------------------- 4. Workshop on the Teaching of Writing --------------------------------------

What? Responding to Students' Written Work: Some practical ideas

Who? Analia Kandel

When? Saturday, 4 September, from 9:30 to 12

Where? Instituto Feedback, Guemes 3915, Buenos Aires

How much? $ 20 in advance, $ 25 on the day

How to enrol? By tel / fax on (011) 4831 0532 or by e-mail at <feedback2@arnet.com.ar>

Posted by: Martha Crespo & Cristina Speranza Instituto Feedback mailto:feedback2@arnet.com.ar

** ------------------- 5. A language query -------------------

I would very much appreciate if any of you could answer my query: how do you read an e-mail address? I mean the @ , ., /, and other symbols used for which I don't know the English word.

Caroline B. de Chiabrando San Francisco - Córdoba. mailto:pchiabra@solsoft.com.ar

** ----------------------------- 6. Request from San Francisco -----------------------------

Dear Argentine colleagues,

Does anyone know of good private adult language school in Buenos Aires, Mendoza, or Bariloche where I could go to freshen up my Spanish speaking skills over our winter break (December 18 - January 3)?

I'd also be interested in information on places where I can stay economically.

By the way, if any of you are ever in San Francisco, it would be my great pleasure to invite you to a cup of coffee and a bagel at one of our hundreds of coffee houses here. I'm sure we'd have a lot to talk about.

Thanks in advance for any help you might be able to render in the way of language schools and ancillary accommodations.

Posted by: Greg Eichler Washington High School San Francisco, CA, USA mailto:greg@bluelotus.com

** ----------------- 7. BrazTESOL 2000 -----------------

BRAZ-TESOL 2000- the Driving force in ELT- the next BRAZ-TESOL National Convention- will be at Mackenzie University, Sao Paulo, Brazil, July 17-20, 2000.

Copies of the Call for Presentations (due date November 27th) and the commercial information for exhibitors are available from <sara.walker@apis.com.br> and <braztesol@nox.net>.

We hope to see large numbers of submissions from Argentina and the Southern Cone.

Posted by: Sara Walker mailto:sara.walker@apis.com.br

** ----------------- 8. Riddles wanted -----------------

I am in need of a list of RIDDLES. Could anyone provide some or suggest the name of a book where I could find a list of them? I'd realy appreciate it.

Posted by: Silvina Cragnolino Cordoba. mailto:scragnolino@arnet.com.ar

** ----------------------------- 9. Language through the Media -----------------------------

I´d like to inform all list members out there about a Language workshop to be held at INTERACTION LANGUAGE STUDIO,

What: Language through the Media Explore the media to enhance your language skills. Discover the language of the 21st century

Who: Daniel Reznik

Where: Av. L.N.Alem 424 PB

When: Saturday 11, 10.30-13.30

For further information call us at 4311-7220/4312-1950 or at <interaction@movi.com.ar>

Posted by: Virginia López Grisolía mailto:interaction@movi.com.ar

** ---------------------------- 10. Coordinating successfully ----------------------------

Coordinating Successfully - a seminar for coordinators (present and future ones) - on Saturday, September 18 from 9:00 am to 5:00 pm.

Information: ABS International- Güemes 4252 Capital. Tel/Fax: 4832-3000 E-mail: <mailto:lewin@einstein.com.ar>lewin@einstein.com.ar <http://www.educa.com.ar/abs> www.educa.com.ar/abs

Posted by: Laura Lewin mailto:laura@educa.com.ar

** ------------------------------- 11. Exaggerating qualifications -------------------------------

I couldn't agree more with Analía Kandel's posting to the list (about some teachers' exaggerating qualifications). In relation to it, I would like to ask a couple of things. First, is the issue primarily concerned with "professionalism" or with Ethics? (By the way, how odd the word sounds nowadays, doesn't it?) Secondly, what lies behind some teachers' tendency to exaggerate their prestige/qualifications? Could it be some kind of hidden inferiority complex due to the lack of a teaching degree perhaps? But, looking on he brighter side, we shouldn't leave aside the fact that any professionals, those who you feel "perspire" knowledge, wisdom and, above all, humility don't have that disgusting (at least to me) attitude

Posted by: Miriam Violante mailto:selc@infovia.com.ar

**

end

Subject: N&V-L Housekeeping message

Two apologies:

a) Sunday night I sent out a N&V-L Digest with the subject header

N&V-L Digest 511 - 5 Sep 1999

This should of course have read

N&V-L Digest 519 - 5 Sep 1999

b) Monday morning a message inadvertently 'escaped' before time carrying unformatted and incomplete messages. The se will be transmitted in due time, properly formatted.

I apologise for these administrative errors and any confusion that they may have caused.

Posted by: List Editor mailto:me@eltnewsandviews.com.ar

----------------------------- N&V-L Digest 520 - 7 Sep 1999 ----------------------------- .................................................... Tell a student and they'll forget. Teach a student and they'll remember. Involve a student and they'll learn. --unknown ..................................................... .

There are 8 messages in this digest

1. email addresses 2. email symbols 3. email symbols 4. the @ symbol 5. riddles 6. slashes 7. What is BINA ? 8. More on symbols

** ------------------ 1. email addresses ------------------

In the US I've heard the @ called "at" and the dots just dots. So my address would be, for example, jbellocq at waycom dot com dot ar. Hope it helps,

Posted by: Connie Bellocq mailto:jbellocq@waycom.com.ar

** ---------------- 2. email symbols ----------------

I'm sure other list members will point out that the symbols used in an e-mail address are:

@ aroba .. dot / slash \ backward slash

Posted by: Frank Nowikowski ( Novi - kov - ski ) Buenos Aires, Argentina mailto:fnowikow@cvtci.com.ar

** ---------------- 3. email symbols ----------------

Caroline asks

how do you read an e-mail address? I mean the @ , ., /, and other symbols used for which I don't know the English word.

@ is read at . is read dot / slash ~ tilde : colon Hope it helps

Posted by: Monica Aparicio The English Place Tandil, Argentina mailto:maparicio@arnet.com.ar

** --------------- 4. the @ symbol ---------------

When people are telling one another their e-mail addresses, @ is definitely called "at", whatever its technical name, both in the US and in the UK.

The rest of Frank Nowikowski's list is perfectly accurate.

The symbol @ Was originally used as a sign on invoices etc. So, "3 pencils @ 10cents" = "3 pencils at 30 cents".

Posted by: Catherine Walter mailto:cwalter@compuserve.com

[ posting modified by Lis Editor ]

** ---------- 5. riddles ----------

In reply to Silvina Cragnolino's request for riddles, there was a page full of them in a recent issue of the English Teaching professional (I'm not sure which one, as I've lent them to trainees).

posted by: Linda Yael mailto:linday@ib.cnea.gov.ar

** ---------- 6. slashes ----------

To avoid any possible confusion, the terms that seem to have been adopted for the slashes are:

/ forward slash and \ backslash

Posted by: Alan Pulverness Norwich, UK mailto:AlanPulverness@msn.com (at em-es-en-dot-com)

** ------------------ 7. What is BINA ? ------------------

I've been trying to think of a non-wordy English translation for the Brazilian "BINA" which is itself an acronym of some kind (if anybody knows the full version in Portuguese I'd be very much obliged) for the device which records the telephone number of the people who are calling and have called you... (now fitted as standard with digital cellular phone systems). If anybody knows the correct term in English for this device / service, please drop me a line. Many thanks.

Graeme Clive Hodgson SKY CURSOS E TRADUCOES, Fortaleza, Brazil. mailto:sky@fortalnet.com.br

** ------------------ 8. More on symbols ------------------

Was interested in the recent discussion about what to call the symbols in an email address and noticed a couple of things that differ a little from a U.S. perspective:

I always hear "at" as the reading of the symbol "@." I've never heard the expression "aroba" used. So for my email address, <lites@bizenglish.com>, we'd say, L-I-T-E-S at bizenglish, that's B-I-Z-E-N-G-L-I-S-H-dot-com. [For people who know my name and business name, this would be abbreviated to: lites-at-bizenglish-dot-com].

In an Internet address, the symbol "/" is frequent and is consistently called a forward slash. For example, in the address for News & Views, http://www.eltnewsandviews.com.ar/elist.html, we'd say: H-T-T-P-colon-forward slash-forward slash-eltnewsandviews [usually spoken as words if recognizable as words]-dot-com [rhymes with ROM as in CD-ROM]-dot-A-R-forward slash-elist-dot-H-T-M-L In addition to "com," U.S. Internet addresses also may have .net [= network, could be commerical or non-profit organizations], .org [= non-profit organizations], .gov [= government], .mil [= military].

Interesting how these things differ a bit in different countries!

Best wishes to all,

Posted by: Emily Lites American Business English Services mailto:lites@bizenglish.com

**

end

------------------------------ N&V-L Digest 521 - 10 Sep 1999 ------------------------------ ...................................................... Don't mix with turkeys if you want to fly like eagles.

--Unknown ...................................................... .

There are 8 messages in this digest

1. Patagonian Spring Seminar 2. What is Geomail ? 3. Answer to "What is BINA ?" 4. International House Seminar 5. The @ symbol 6. Thanks 7. Audition Call 8. Testing and error correction

**

---------------------------- 1. Patagonian Spring Seminar ----------------------------

I'm posting the final version of the programme for our Spring Seminar. Apologies for being a little late, but we have had an unexpected (and welcome!) addition that caused the delay: With grateful thanks to Macmillan- Heinemann, we are very pleased to announce that Judy Garton-Sprenger, the well-known author and teacher trainer, who is arriving in our country on September 24th, will be speaking at our Seminar on September 25th.

This, then, is the programme for our event:

Friday, September 24th

8.00 - 9.00 Accreditation

9.00 - 10.30 Susan Hillyard Drama Games in the Language Classroom.

11.00 - 12.30 Nori Robiglio Close Relationships: Context and Meaning.

14.30 - 16.00 Susan Hillyard Walking the Tightrope.

16.30 - 18.00 Martin Eayrs Lexical Collocations: We don't say because we don't say it.

Saturday, September 25th

8.00- 9.30 Ana María Armendáriz Are we really preparing kids for the new millennium?

10.00- 11.00 Daniela Forquera Authentic Assessment in the English Language Classroom.

11.30- 13.00 Judy Garton-Sprenger Get Real ! Myth and Reality in the ELT Classroom.

14.30- 16.00 Cristina Gallo The Internet as an Educational Resource I Getting the Idea.

16.30- 18.00 Cristina Gallo The Internet as an Educational Resource II Web-based Projects.

There will be commercial presentations after the sessions, and Judy will also be presenting her new book, "Shine".

We look forward to welcoming many of you on 24th!

Cristina

Posted by: Cristina Gallo Neuquen, Argentina mailto:cristina@newsystem.com

** -------------------- 2. What is Geomail ? --------------------

Has anybody out there ever heard about the GeoMail? Apparently, it is a pen pal network organized by the National Geographic. I received an email from the assistant coordinator offering their service to enrol my students in the program. The children are supposed to send their addresses and to choose among a series of interests so that they can be matched with other children who share their interests.

I would really appreciate it if somebody who knows about the program could tell me whether the organization does actually exist and if it is worth making the students participate.

Thanks in advance.

Posted by: Claudia Corbella Rosario. Argentina mailto:cesalyc@citynet.net.ar

** ----------------------------- 3. Answer to "What is BINA ?" -----------------------------

I've read somewhere that what you describe as BINA is referred to as "Caller ID" in American English.

Hope it helps !

Posted by: Walter Nicolini mailto:wa99@iname.com

** ------------------------------ 4. International House Seminar ------------------------------

International House announces a seminar "Reading between the lines" given by Benita Cruickshank on Saturday September 11, 9.30 - 12.30. Venue: Pacheco de Melo 2555, 1425 Capital Federal.

For further information and enrolment please contact International House, (011) 4805-6393/4801-5954 or by e-mail: <mailto:melo@internet.siscotel.com>melo@internet.siscotel.com

Posted by: Sofía Sengenberger mailto:melo@internet.siscotel.com

** --------------- 5. The @ symbol ---------------

I seem to have caused some confusion saying the @ symbol is called "aroba." As soon as I read my posting in my sent tray I realised that I had inadvertently sent the Spanish word for the @ symbol. In English I have only heard it referred to as "at".

Posted by: Frank Nowikowski ( Novi - kov - ski ) Buenos Aires, Argentina mailto:fnowikow@cvtci.com.ar

** --------- 6. Thanks ---------

I'd like to thank all those of you who answered my message. I was surprised to see how quckly I got the answers and how many of you wrote back. It's fantastic to see how this (the e-mail) helps and keeps us all in touch.

Regards from S. Francisco,

Caroline

Posted by: Caroline Bolado de Chiabrando mailto:pchiabra@solsoft.com.ar

** ---------------- 7. Audition Call ----------------

ARTSPOT, Education and Entertainment seeks actors and actresses for year 2000 season.

Must: - be over 18 years of age - speak fluent English - have singing abilities - have school timetable availability

Auditions: Saturday, Septiember 11th, at 4 pm Teatro de la Capilla Ladislao Martinez 539, Martinez

For more information call 4733-3087

Posted by: Guillermo Marrodan <mailto:artspot@movi.com.ar>artspot@movi.com.ar

** ------------------------------- 8. Testing and error correction -------------------------------

John Ransdem, Chief examiner from the University of London- Edexcel, will be visiting Argentina in September. He will be talking about COMMUNICATIVE TESTING IN ELT and conducting workshops in ERROR CORRECTION.

He will also be giving talks in Cordoba, Santa Fe, Rosario and Paraná. All his talks and workshops are free.

For further details contact....

Leeds School of English Zabala 1686 1426 - Buenos Aires Tel/Fax: 788-5052 E-mail: <leedslondonrep@interar.com.ar> <http://usuarios.interar.com.ar/leedslondonrep> Posted by: Paola Danesi mailto:leedslondonrep@interar.com.a

**

end

------------------------------ N&V-L Digest 522 - 11 Sep 1999 ------------------------------

..................................................... If there is something you own you can't give away you don't own it, it owns you. --Albert Schweitzer .....................................................

There are 5 messages in this digest

1. Enquiry about Geomail 2. What is Geomail ? 3. language query 4. pronunciation teacher wanted 5. Info wanted on courses in New York

** ------------------------ 1. Enquiry about Geomail ------------------------

Yes, Geomail does exist. It is a penpal Network organized by World Magazine (National Geographic for Kids). Kids have to send information about themselves, including what they like to do and the network matches them with kids from around the world with similar interests. I tried it with my students 5 years ago and some of them are still corresponding with their penpals! Not all of them got matched, though. The cost is about 5 dollars per person. They match kids with 4 or 5 people and then if they write and don't receive any nswers, kids are matched again with no additional cost.

For information go to <mailto:penpal@nationalgeographic.com>penpal@nationalgeographic.com or write to Geo Mail Pen Pal Network, PO Box 96088, Washington, DC 20090-6088.

Good luck,

Posted by: Connie Bellocq mailto:jbellocq@waycom.com.ar

** -------------------- 2. What is Geomail ? --------------------

Geomail is a penpal network organized by the National Geographic Society. It is a reliable program that matches students to three other kids their age and with common interests. Our students at Saint Patrick's Bilingual School are already corresponding with English speaking youngsters from different countries.

Posted by: Elba Villanueva de Debat Escuela Superior de Lenguas Universidad Nacional de Cordoba Argentina mailto:edebat@esl.unc.edu.ar

** ----------------- 3. language query -----------------

Can anybody let me know what the technical English term for ¨Navegar en Internet¨ is ?

Thanks a lot!

Posted by: Marina Falasca mailto:mfalasca@infovia.com.ar

** ------------------------------- 4. pronunciation teacher wanted -------------------------------

A student of mine is sitting for the FCE and he would like to improve his British pronunciation. As I have American pronunciation I can´t help him. Can anybody help ?

Thanks a lot,

Posted by: Gabriela Hernández mailto:ghernand@cvtci.com.ar

** ------------------------------------- 5. Info wanted on courses in New York -------------------------------------

Dear eltnewsandviews members:

My name is Fernando, I am 29 years old and I live in Cordoba City. I am in the 4th year of the English Translating course of studies at Escuela Superior de Lenguas U.N.C. Next Thursday I'm travelling to New York City and I would like to receive some information about any FREE course, seminar or session in English that I could attend there.

I would appreciate your help if you could send me any kind of information.

Thank you very much to anyone who writes me

Posted by: Fernando, Cordoba mailto:fmt7@yahoo.com

**

end

------------------------------ N&V-L Digest 523 - 13 Sep 1999 ------------------------------ .................................................... "A fool and his money are soon parted". What I want to know is how they got together in the first place.

--Cyril Fletcher .....................................................

There are 5 messages in this digest

1. Surfing the Net 2. Transcribing voice quality 3. Comments on pronunciation 4. Surfing the Net (2) 5. Change of address

** ------------------ 1. Surfing the Net ------------------

Marina wants to know how to say *Navegar en Internet*. The expression I know many NN use is *to surf the net*. Hope it helps. Cheers,

Posted by: Graciela B Pascual Santa Rosa. La Pampa mailto:gpascual@arnet.com.ar

** ----------------------------- 2. Transcribing voice quality -----------------------------

Can anybody help me with this request from a teacher:

Is there a way to transcribe voice quality in phonetic script?

Second question:

What happened to the Brazilian e-mail list idea?

Thanks,

Sidney Pratt Recife PE - Brasil mailto:sidney@nlink.com.br

[ N&V-L Brazil will be starting up in November. If interested in knowing more contact the N&V-L List Editor at <me@eltnewsandviews.com.ar> - List Ed ]

** ---------------------------- 3. Comments on pronunciation ----------------------------

Colleagues -

I was a little taken aback by Gabriela Hernández's recent request for someone to help her FCE student with their pronunciation because of the British/American accent difference.

There is currently serious work being done in the area of pronunciation teaching with regard to attainment criteria and 'standards'. This work has its parallel in work being done on linguistic imperialism, Teaching English as an International Language (TEIL) and so on, work which aims to reflect growing resistance to the US/UK hegemony in setting those standards, in text books and examinations as well as in classrooms themselves. A lot of the pronunciation work is being done by the PronSIG of IATEFL and is published in their newsletter, Speak Out! But there are other centres of such thinking.

Moreover, as a former interviewer for all the UCLES examinations in EFL, I can testify to the fact that 'accent type' is not a consideration when evaluating the candidate; the criteria are based on intelligibility and flexibility of expression (vocabulary, syntax, register and so on). The demand for 'native-like' competence in candidates for the CPE, for example, was not accent-based.

The Cambridge examinations have changed to reflect the growing reality of English language teaching & learning. There used, for example, to be two sets of exams for teachers of EFL, one for 'native speakers' and the other for 'non-natives' - this differentiation (some might call it discrimination) has long disappeared. In fact, some people have stopped using the 'NS/NNS' terminology altogether, referring to 'expert users' of the language and 'bilingual English speakers'. This is not done in any spirit of exaggerated political correctness but simply to present more precise terminology when describing professionals in the field of English language education.

So, go ahead, Gabriela: you are an expert user of English and therefore well capable of preparing your student for the FCE examination. If you feel that the examiners in your area penalize candidates for their 'American' accent (which would surprise me tremendously), then you should contact UCLES immediately.

Best wishes,

Posted by: Kevin John Keys FALE/UFMG/Brasil mailto:keys@flexis.com.br

** ----------------- 4. Surfing the Web ------------------

Surfing answer

Marina Falasca asked what is the technical English term for "Navegar en Internet." I have only heard the term "surfing the net" or "surfing the Internet."

Posted by: Frank Nowikowski ( Novi - kov - ski ) Buenos Aires, Argentina mailto:fnowikow@cvtci.com.ar

** -------------------- 5. Change of address --------------------

Finally, please note that our email address will be changing on 1st October. This won't affect your address on the list but if you need to contact me you will have to drop the final <.ar> after 1st October.

i.e. BEFORE 1/10/99 <me@eltnewsandviews.com.ar>

AFTER 1/10/99 <me@eltnewsandviews.com>

**

end

------------------------------ N&V-L Digest 524 - 16 Sep 1999 ------------------------------ .................................................... If you treat an individual as he is; he will stay as he is; if you treat him as he ought to be and could be, he will become what he ought to be and could be".

--unknown ....................................................

There are 4 messages in this digest

1. transcription of voice quality 2. re: Pronunciation teacher wanted 3. Penpals 4. brackets

** --------------------------------- 1. transcription of voice quality ---------------------------------

Regarding the transcription of voice quality using the IPA system: there is a set of diacritics for indicating voice quality, depending on what is meant by that. The IPA diacritics are for realisations such as 'breathy' or 'creaky' voice. There are also symbols to indicate tone and tone movement. Loudness and rate are not represented in the system. The full chart and supplementary tables can be found at:

http://www.arts.gla.ac.uk/IPA/ipa.html

Best wishes

poste by: Kevin Keys (Member, International Phonetic Association) mailto:keys@flexis.com.br

** ----------------------------------- 2. re: Pronunciation teacher wanted -----------------------------------

As a Cambridge Oral Examiner in Rosario, Argentina, I can tell you, Gabriela, that candidates having a CONSISTENT American pronunciation/accent all throughout their Oral performance are not penalized. Therefore, you shouldn't worry.

Posted by: Rita Zeinstejer mailto:RitaZeinstejer@usa.net

** ---------- 3. Penpals ----------

I would like to know where I can get hold of lists/ addresses / etc of pen-pals for my teenage/young adults students to get in touch with (English speaking or other). Any hints??? Posted by: Maria Luz Callejo

mailto:marialuz@impsat1.com.ar

** ----------- 4. brackets -----------

I wonder if anybody could give me the correct names for the following kinds of brackets: { } and << >> as I was recently stumped when a student asked for distinct names. In Portuguese, the first kind ({}) are called "chaves" but I don't think "keys" makes sense in English. Square brackets refers only to [ ], doesn't it?

If anybody could shed some light on this I would be very much obliged.

Posted by: Graeme Clive Hodgson SKY CURSOS E TRADUCOES, Fortaleza, Brazil. mailto:sky@fortalnet.com.br

**

end

------------------------------ N&V-L Digest 525 - 21 Sep 1999 ------------------------------

.................................................... Keep in mind that even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there. --anon ....................................................

There are 4 messages in this digest

1. TD in Campana 2. Cambridge pronunciation 3. Pronunciation standards 4. brackets

** ---------------- 1. TD in Campana ----------------

All EFL & BE teachers in the Campana/Zarate area are cordially invited to join us on Friday October 1st at Project Institute, Berutti 223, Campana from 10am to midday. Over coffee and biscuits we will be discussing the formation of small on-going Teacher Development Groups, (with the option of taking an international exam) in 2000. RSVP Nora Juarez tel: (03489) 421996/430573

Posted by; Caroline Gwatkin mailto:theplace@sinectis.com.ar

** -------------------------- 2. Cambridge pronunciation --------------------------

I have read the posting by Rita Zeinstejer about the accent/ pronunciation question regarding Cambridge exams. Rita writes:

"candidates having a consistent (capitalized in the original) American pronunciation/accent all throughout their Oral performance are not penalized".

This proved to be real food for thought for me. As a NNS of English, my interlanguage - or whatever you want to call it at this stage of my development - is made up of everything I pick up from the environment: films, BBC Word Service (radio), CNN (TV), Newsweek, The Times, conversations with NNS and NS of English of various provenance, etc. etc. etc. And this mixture is definitely present in my performance: sometimes I happen to catch a phrase only certain speakers of American English use, but my pronunciation/accent is largely more British sounding. Since this mixture permeates my NNS performance, I don't know if I can assure that my pronunciation is CONSISTENTLY British. And then, which variety of British English? South-eastern / London area ? RP ? ??? With so much emphasis on English for International Communication, shouldn't the standard of intelligibility be more important than that of variety?

Any reactions to this?

Posted by: Dr. Mario López Barrios Escuela Superior de Lenguas Universidad Nacional de Córdoba mailto:lopez@powernet.com.ar

** -------------------------- 3. Pronunciation standards --------------------------

I don't wish to spin out this thread any more than necessary, but I feel intrigued enough by Rita Zeinstejer's note to comment further.

I am intrigued by the labelling. Why the need for labelling in the first place? As an examiner I was concerned to understand what the candidate was actually trying to say. And then the labels. What is an 'American' accent? How is it different from another kind of accent? I notice Ms Zeinstejer seems undecided between 'pronunciation/accent' - is there a difference? What is meant by these terms? And lastly, the notion of 'consistency', which is presented very emphatically so must be important. How do we define this? Am I inconsistent if I use a rhotic form early in my interview and a non-rhotic form later? Does switching between the two cause problems of intelligibility? Or is it perhaps a question of phonetic context? I believe we have to break away from these externally imposed, rigid parameters of acceptability with reference to accent and develop a more open position, focused on getting one's meaning across.

Posted by: Kevin John Keys mailto:flexis.com.br

** ----------- 4. brackets -----------

Graeme Clive Hodgson wrote:

I wonder if anybody could give me the correct names for the following kinds of brackets: { } and << >>

{ } curly bracket ... as in: "Open curly brackets, yadda yadda yadda, close curly brackets"

< > angle brackets ... as in: "Write the number between angle brackets"

Posted by: Roberto Perez mailto:rgpg@technologist.com http://RobertoPerez.tsx.org

**

end ------------------------------ N&V-L Digest 526 - 28 Sep 1999 ------------------------------

.................. Thought of the Day ........................................ Technology will not replace teachers ... ... but teachers who use technology will replace those who don't. --Christine Meloni ........................................

There are 4 messages in this digest

1. Info on IGCSE required 2. Workshop announced 3. Workshop announced (2) 4. Looking for a job or teacher for 2000 ?

**

------------------------- 1. Info on IGCSE required -------------------------

Does anybdy know of a site where I can get information about the Language and literature IGCSE exams?

Thanks a lot.

Posted by: Gabriela Fernandez Testa mailto:avefenix@arnet.com.ar

** --------------------- 2. Workshop announced ---------------------

The English Language Center is pleased to announce the following workshop to be held on its premises:

Title: Classroom English: A hands-on workshop for both trainees and experienced teachers

Lecturer: Alfredo Jaeger

Date: Sat., October 2, 1999

Time: 2.30-5.30pm

Venue: T.E.L. Center, Thames 511, 1414 Buenos Aires City

For further details please contact us by phone/fax: (11) 4856-0020 (3.30-8.30pm), or e-mail: <telcenter@infovia.com.ar>

Posted by: Viviana Myslicki mailto:hmlopez@infovia.com.ar

** ------------------------- 3. Workshop announced (2) -------------------------

BEWEnglish/HYPERMEDIA 2000 announces the following workshop:

Title: Successful Marketing Strategies for Institutes and Teachers of English

Lecturers: Betty Wolff/Marcelo Rodeiro/Gustavo Macagno

Date: October 16th and October 30th (Both Saturdays) 2 pm to 7:30 pm

Place: BEWEnglish/HYPERMEDIA 2000 Juncal 2530, 1425 Ciudad de Buenos Aires

Fee: $120

Vacancies: limited

Contact: betty@giga.com.ar. Tel: 4825-0303. Fax: 4821-3572

Posted by: Betty Wolff Director of Studies mailto:betty@giga.com.ar

**

------------------------------------------ 4. Looking for a job or teacher for 2000 ? ------------------------------------------

At this time of the year schools and teachers are beginning to think about next year's employment possibilities. Schools may need to replace or hire new staff and teachers may want to move on to fresh fields and pastures new.

ELT News & Views would like to offer list members the use of its job service. Like the N&V-L list the service is free - all you need is a web browser to access our web site.

You will find more information on the ELT News & Views web site at http://www.eltnewsandviews.com.ar/jobshop/jobshop. Here you can browse jobs on offer, see details of teachers looking for work and post your own requests.

One warning - remember our web site is changing at the end of October - if you can't log on eliminate the <.ar> and try the URL http://www.eltnewsandviews.com/jobshop/jobshop.

And remember, unlike newspaper advertisements and pay web sites this service is completely free.

Posted by: List Editor mailto:me@eltnewsandviews.com.ar

**

end ------------------------------ N&V-L Digest 527 - 29 Sep 1999 ------------------------------

.................. Thought of the Day ............................................................. Reading and writing, arithmetic and grammar do not constitute education, any more than a knife, fork and spoon constitute a dinner. --John Lubbock .............................................................

There are 4 messages in this digest

1. Liliana McCann's email list 2. IGCSE in Argentina 3. IGCSE info 4. Translation enquiry

**

------------------------------ 1. Liliana McCann's email list ------------------------------

Dear colleagues,

I had decided not to comment on this unethical procedure. However, I got home today only to receive the same mail I had already received, again in Spanish.

There has been recent talk on non realistic degrees, and how the use of these undervalue our profession. Well, from my very humble point of view the procedure of this person (Liliana Mc Cann) is as unethical. Besides, I resent the fact that she considers herself my colleague. As I told her, my colleagues are people who value ethics and act accordingly. I think this kind of behaviour undermines our image and that of the institution it tries to represent.

I appeal to all of you to think deep inside and bear in mind that this kind of behaviour is just the tip of the iceberg, the sooner we "melt" it the better.

Sorry if I expressed myself too bluntly, I am angry.

regards,

Posted by: Gabriela Fernandez Testa. mailto:avefenix@arnet.com.ar

** --------------------- 2. IGCSE in Argentina ---------------------

Information on IGCSE can be obtained in Argentina through Litty Mora, UCLES Support Officer for Argentina. I am not aware of a site with IGCSE information other than at the following web-page: www.cie.org.uk.

Please do not hesitate to contact me should you need further information or advice on this matter.

Posted by: Litty Mora UCLES Support Officer for Argentina mailto:plmora@impsat1.com.ar

**

------------- 3. IGCSE info -------------

Through the ESSARP Web site (www.essarp.org.ar) you can obtain information about IGCSEs in general. ESSARP is the sole representative in Argentina for IGCSE and AICE exams.

If you have any further queries about specific exams, you can e-mail centre@essarp.org.ar.

Posted by: Cristina Banfi ESSARP Centre mailto: banfi@essarp.org.ar

** ---------------------- 4. Translation enquiry ----------------------

Hi everybody: We are translating an agreement and we have come across a troublesome acronym: PAT. We know it is "the profit on ordinary activities of a branch of a company after deduction of all the branch expenses, charges and reserves, income tax, all taxes and duties and salaries of the employees, management fees payable to the company and ntercompany charges". We thought about ganancia neta (net profit. )Does anyone know any specific term or what this accronym stands for?

We'll really appreciate any contribution.

Thanks very much! Posted by: Carolina Matute Rosario - Argentina mailto:matu73@infovia.com.ar

**

end